NOCTURNAL DICTIONARY: INTERVIEW (PART 1)

Nocturnal Dictionary are a young Whitby band that I first saw supporting Moonwreck at The Starms. They've appeared on Bob Fischer's BBC Tees Introducing radio programme and they gig seemingly relentlessly on the local, and not so local, circuit.

On a sunny, late afternoon in early September I met three of Nocturnal Dictionary in the beer garden of The Plough on Baxtergate. Surely it's the cheapest pint you can get in Whitby? The lager was £2 and one of the bitters (Sovereign I think) was £1.80.

The core of the band (because they have been known to use guest musicians for various roles) comprises four members. Dave Magson, the bass player, was unfortunately absent because he lives in Filey. However drummer Niamh, sax player Max and singer and guitarist George were all present and correct.

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ORIGIN

 (noun) the point or place where something begins

Max         I've known George and Niamh for years.

George    We went to primary school together at St. Hilda's.

Niamh     Never did I imagine we'd be in a band together.

George    We didn't see each other for years afterwards.

Niamh      I only played the recorder back then.

George     At our primary school they had recorders, and at the end of the music lesson the teacher would dip them upside down in a bucket of bleach, and the week after they'd still be in that bucket of bleach. She'd just pass them out and you could taste bleach from inside the recorder.

PW          Is that where the song title 'Blunt Bleach' comes from?

Max         Oooh! That's a good idea! Now, for the record, yes it is.

George     Niamh used to laugh at anything when she was younger. We'd just be sitting at a dinner table, and I'd say just anything. She'd start laughing.

Niamh      I don't know what it was, it just happened. I'm still like that now. It's just a band.

PW            My daughter Iris, she played with you all in that schools big band. You played Happy, 

the Farrell Williams song. She's nine and she played clarinet.

George       I'd like a clarinet in the band.

Niamh        It's good fun playing in a big band.

Max           The choir seemed to ruin it a bit.

PW            So who's the teacher in charge of that then?

Max           Bob Butterfield.

PW            He's a legend, isn't he?

Max           He's a fucking legend. Oh man. Oh, he's my man. I love Bob.

George       I guess I'm the outsider compared to you two 'cos like I never did music at school on an instrument. I don't like the philosophy of it. When you're doing it at school, you just link it to school and it becomes something you have to do like homework, and I just don't agree with it.

I think when you make kids read at school it becomes a chore, but they should enjoy reading. It's the same for instruments as well. I think it's good that you can do music at school, but I don't agree with the way it's taught. It's too rigid.

PW              You think it should be more freeform?

George        Definitely. I can't read music, It's good to read music, but I don't think you need to necessarily.

Max            Niamh can read fucking drum tabs.

George       I think the best way of learning an instrument is by playing other band's songs.

PW             How did you learn to play? Just by picking it up and teaching yourself?

George       I had lessons for a bit. I think you have to try and write songs that are similar to your idols' and then slowly figure out your own style.

Suddenly an extremely noisy plane passes over the pub beer garden and there's some debate about whether this has any significance. George suggests the possibility of a rogue paparazzi drone. Max seems convinced it's been sent by Nick from The Pier to sabotage the interview.

PW              It's been a lot quieter though than that last interview with The Pier at The Little A, hasn't it Max? I had to wade my way through the sound files on that one. There were all these drunken people gobbing off in the background.

Max             That was hilarious. Nocturnal Dictionary are a better band than The Pier, and that's on record. We've got our last gig tomorrow as The Pier.

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CORPORATE IDENTITY

 (noun) the way an organisation is perceived by its members and the public

Niamh, Max and Dave with George at the front

We go on to discuss how the band coped with a gig at The Rifle Club, a Chamomile Records Showcase, despite drummer Niamh having an injured hand.

George        Our bass player Dave covered, and then we got our friend to play bass.

Niamh         He did a really good job on it.

George        But he's not really one of us, he was good, but it didn't fit really.

PW              He did his best?

Niamh         Yeah. He did well. I was proud.

George         He fitted musically, but not personality wise.

Max             You had tears in your eyes at one point.

Niamh          Yes. It was very emotional.

Max             Niamh got emotional.

Niamh          Yeah, just watching you play. I felt like I'd died or something.

PW              There was a photograph of you watching.

Max             Was it you that took it?

PW              No it was Jon, Jon Horne.

George        Who wrote that review?

PW              Yes. It was a good review. He's a good writer.

George        Oh, that weird review, where he's like "There should be more t-shirts and CDs".

PW              He's got a point though, hasn't he?

George        I don't know. I don't think he has. He discussed about us not introducing bands, but it's more like just friends, so we all knew each other. It's not like we're trying to be... we're just like a community playing for each other. We didn't need to introduce each other.

PW              It was a showcase though, a public gig so anybody could have gone?

Max             I was at Leedsfest and they had an MC during the day and, I don't know, I don't think it 

fits. It gets a bit formal, I like a chilled out gig.

George         It's too formal and corporate having an MC.

Max             Chamomile Records isn't exactly like this big record label thing is it?

PW              What exactly is Chamomile Records then?

Niamh          It's just this thing

George         We put a compilation out on it of our friends. Tom Found and stuff, but it's just a moniker to have gigs under. We don't want to have headliners.

Niamh          It's quite a cool name.

Max             Yeah, Chamomile Records. I like that

George         But when we release our album, because we're going to record it soon, it's a label to put it out under instead of self releasing it I guess.

PW               But you'll still be releasing it on your own label?

Max             Yes. Unless we get signed, which would be nice George.

George         It would be lovely.

PW              Where are you going to make it?

George         We haven't decided. We might be going to Leeds to record it.

Max             Shall we go to Manchester? Shall we go to Salford? Shall we record in the same place The Smiths recorded?

George         Pretty much any studio's 25 quid an hour. Got to do it all live though.

Max             The full band, we'll just play it.

Niamh         That's how it works.

George         Because we're a tight group, we can do it.

Rare ND tapes

Max             I wish we could get signed. There's been talk. I mean somebody told me at The Rifle Club gig that they were talking to Bob Fischer, the Radio Tees guy...

George        We're lucky that he likes us.

PW              He likes everyone (laughs). No I didn't mean it like that. He likes Whitby bands.

Niamh         He's a good egg.

George        He's putting us on this Sunday. He's a promoter for this venue in Eaglescliff called The

Waiting Room. In the Middlesborough Evening Gazette last week there was like a full page of gigs there. There were pictures of the bands playing, and we were the biggest picture.

PW              Is that because you're an interesting band to look at? You look a bit different to the rest who are all clutching guitars and that. A saxophone and Niamh on drums. You just look so different. At the last gig I saw you play, did you not use a French horn or something?

George        That was a one off, that. [Nocturnal Dictionary]started off as me, Niamh, French horn and violin. We played slower, folky stuff. Even though Niamh and me are still in it, it is a different group now.

Max             I always think we're like psychedelic surf jazz. That's a good way of explaining it. I'm wearing the Hawaiian shirt. We've got to be surf. George's lyrics sort of imitate the lyrics of Jim Morrison and The Doors. Obviously he was talking complete gobbledygook half the time, because he was on acid, but George, he doesn't need the acid. He's just got an acidy mind.

You know the lead singer of alt-J? He took mushrooms, went to bed on his own, he was like "Oh, I'm just feeling a bit ill", the mushrooms kicked in and he had a bad trip. He had to take time off uni for like three weeks, he just was fucked.

George        Apparently after he took these mushrooms the way he approached song-writing was different. He said before that all his songs had been too clean, but after this trip it obviously worked out for him. Not that we've done any psychedelic drugs like that.

Max             Not yet.

George        Any bands, or any artist that relies on drugs to make art is a bit sad. I think it's just a shortcut to what you'd make anyway.

I was speaking to Jon Horne (who loves the band) at a Whitby Town match a few days ago about their contradictory thinking. It seems decidedly odd that a group so desperate to get signed by a label can consider selling CDs and t-shirts, or having an MC at gigs too corporate.

Jon and I grew up going to Rock Against Racism gigs and the like, where band merchandise was sold for distinctly non-corporate reasons. Maybe it's a generational thing?

Whitby lost 5 - 0 to Salford City by the way. Unlike Nocturnal Dictionary they had a poor backline.

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THE SCENE

(noun) a specified area of activity or interest

PW              Do you get on well with the other bands in Whitby that you gig with?

Niamh         Everyone's so nice.

George        Ten Foot Tom are really nice.

Max             I'm surprised that they'd support us, because when I was playing in The Pier, we always thought that they were big. Big in Whitby. They were pretty well established.

PW              I think you're quite different to other bands. You approach it in a different way.

George        We do respect [the other bands] though. It's always good to have a diverse mix. In 

Whitby it's hard. I read on your blog, when you interviewed Moonwreck and you asked 'why do you think lots of bands have appeared?', and they were like 'I think there are loads of places to play', but I disagree with that. I don't think there are a lot of places to play.

PW              But if you'd been around in the nineties, there was hardly anywhere to play. Nobody in Whitby appeared to be playing original music. There were loads of bands doing covers in pubs.

George        Well all pubs want is covers, which is difficult because of where we live. If we were in a city we'd get lots of attention.

Max             Middlesbrough's good. We get lots of gigs in Middlesbrough.

Niamh         They like us in Middlesbrough.

Max             What do they call that street? Linthorpe Road? That has a lot of venues on it. Indie venues which accept our music.

Niamh         TS1 was good.

Max             Yes. TS1, Whirling Dervish. That's the place to be.

George        A lot of touring bands go to Middlesbrough.

PW              Have you played in Scarborough?

George        Well at first we were just playing wherever we could, and mostly for free.

Niamh         We were desperate, weren't we?

George        I hate how people exploit bands and just expect them to play for free. The thing is with bands, we do want to play as much as possible. They know that, and they just take advantage of that and don't pay us anything.

Max             What I want is to make a living from this band.

George        Not even a living, just being able to tour.

PW              You can get signed up too quickly though, can't you?

Niamh         I think we'd be better off not being signed. The way we do it now, with George getting all the gigs and things.

Max             The good thing about us is we can get songs, literally in just minutes.

Niamh         I don't know how. It just happens.   

PW              There's obviously a chemistry. Is it between you three then?

Max             And Dave. Dave is just amazing.

George        He's phenomenal. Dave's probably the most gifted in our group as a musician. We're lucky to have met him.

Max             We have a solid backline with Dave, and she's a fantastic drummer (pointing to Niamh).

George        That's it. A good bass and drummer, then me and Max can do what we like.

Niamh         You guys are bloody brilliant though, to be fair. 

George        It's not arrogance or snobbery. It's just being self-confident. If you don't believe in yourself there's no point.

Max             That was the problem with The Pier: Nick just wasn't confident, I wasn't a drummer and Mat Glaisher can't play guitar.

PW              A few drawbacks there then?

Niamh         You're proper slagging them off.

Max             I slag them off all the time.

PW              This interview's going to cause mayhem. I'm going to get another drink now, but I'll turn this recorder off first (click!).

PART 2 of this interview will be along in a couple of weeks' time. Expect more controversy, an insight into song writing and Devil's Lettuce.